Cubase Generic Remote and Behringer BCR 2000

Tested and working with Cubase SX3.
Tested and not working with Cubase Studio 4. Boohoo.

edit: re-uploaded, now with a manual which hopefully explains things. I’m afraid this method combines a few different approaches, so I know it seems a little complicated… hopefully it’s a lot easier in practice to use than it is to follow my explanations.
Get it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?290wwmjutz3

Unfortunately Steinberg seem to have removed the vst 2.4 sdk. I am trying to find a solution. in the meantime, this will still work quite happily, the only thing from the sdk that was needed is the vstparam tool to create your own vstxml files. I am trying to find somewhere that this is available, or some way to make this available.

my BCR sometimes sends out cc38 alongside some of the cc’s I have used in the patch (98-101 – NRPNs and RPNs), which will cause the patch problems – I’m sure it didn’t do this before – this seems to have been fixed by using a different midi channel, but I’m not sure it’s resolved fully … it’s working fine for me at the moment, so all I can say is it should be fine for you too.
/edit

Anyone using remote controllers with Cubase may have experienced the rather frustrating Generic Remote implementation. Potentially hugely powerful, in practice hugely frustrating. Try putting an fx plug-in on track one, or the master track. Map a few parameters. Now add another track, and drag it to the left/above the first track, thus displacing it. Low and behold, your parameters are screwed. This severely limits the use of the GR, unless you always work in a strictly controlled way (e.g. set up a template which has all of your plugins exactly where you want them, and never change your mind).

So, how would I like it to work?
- Select any track, then instantly map the controller knobs to a plug-ins parameters. Ideally I would like to be able to do this for all 8 insert slots, nevermind which plug-in I have there.
- If I change a plug-in, I don’t want to have to recreate everything in the GR dialog.
- Ideally, I would also like to be able to remap the order of the parameters of my plug-ins. I don’t want to load one compressor and have threshold on the first knob, output on the eighth knob, only to load a different compressor and find that output is on the 23rd knob… I want to be able to create these mappings myself.
- I like the GR functionality that is centred around the selected track – I much prefer this to using banks of 8 tracks, as in the Mackie Control protocol.

So, I have enabled this, through assorted readings into the subjects, workarounds, etc.

vstxml: This allows you to remap the parameters. Bit like midi mapping everything in a plug-in, saving that, then auto-loading it. But you don’t need a plug-in with it’s own midi-map. And since it works directly within Cubase, I can use my BCR encoders in relative/endless mode, which is rarely supported in midi-map.
These vstxml files sit next to the vst .dll of the same name. Cubase recognises them, and re-orders the plug-in’s parameters.
You can get the vstparam tool, which can create these vstxml files, in the vst 2.4 SDK (click the link, read the licence, download). These are easily edited.

However, vstxml doesn’t seem to be supported by the Generic Remote. It does however work with other remotes, e.g. the Mackie Control.
However, as I said, I don’t want to step through banks of 8 – I like the Selected Track method. For this I chose to emulate the Frontier Alphatrack. This is not by default supported in Cubase, and will not appear in your Remote Controller list until you install a .dll into the Cubase Components folder. You get this here (or here if you’re on a Mac). Instructions are included.

Next, something to emulate the midi messages sent by the Frontier Alphatrack to Cubase is needed. Since it only has 3 knobs, this can’t be done very effectively on my BCR, so I wrote a Max patch which does the trick – allowing me to use the 56 knobs (32 + 3×8) of my BCR. Since most people won’t have Max, I have built an executable.

So, after that lengthy, self-satisfied preamble, how does it work, what does it do?

- Make sure you have the Alphatrack available as an option in the Cubase remote control settings. Here’s a pic:

- You need to make sure that the “midi in” in that pic corresponds to the “midi out (Alphatrack)” in the MaxPatch.

- I also use some of the features of Cubase’s Generic Remote. You will need to add a Generic Remote, and import the xml included in the downloaded .rar. Midi in and out must be matched to the MaxPatch.

- Since the patch sends midi to Cubase to set Plugin mode on the Alphatrack, you need to open Cubase first, then the patch. You can press the re-init button if this doesn’t seem to have worked.

Hopefully you can see from these images how everything is set up on my computer, and emulate it on yours.

The BCR needs to be sending out the correct midi data, so make sure you have sent (and stored) the sysex included in the .rar, and you have that preset selected.

To recap:
- BCR has correct preset
- Cubase has GR and Alphatrack loaded, with correct midi ins and outs
- MaxPatch is open, with correct midi ins and outs.

- Load a project with several tracks and plugins (my default set has this).
- select a track.
- press one of the 8 buttons on the top of two rows – the corresponding insert slot should be selected for editing, and the plugin opened (or closed if already open – just press it again)
- move your knobs – you should see some response.
- Select another plug-in with the buttons. Repeat until satisfied.

What makes this particularly useful, is that it responds to vstxmls. So if you create plenty of these you can have your fx organised in some order. You could do the same for instruments, but those are dealt with better in the Cubase GR, so it’s up to you.
For example, my compressors all go Threshold, Ratio, Attack, Release, Knee, Style, (misc), Output on the first 8 knobs – so if I want to edit a compressor I know which knob will contrl which parameter fairly easily.

Of course, you have to create all of these vstxml’s, which takes time. I’ve done some already though, and included them – all you have to do if you have the same plug-in is place them in the same directory, wherever your vstplugins reside.

Get the patch here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?290wwmjutz3

If you don’t have any virtual midi cables, you need some. On a pc, try midiyoke

I was really happy when I got all of that working. Then I upgraded to Cubase Studio 4, and found that since everything works on the vst 3 paradigm, and I presume vstxml’s have changed, it no longer works. And, nowhere is there documentation of how it has changed. And, nowhere does there seem to be anyone who knows anything about it.

So, if you know about vstxml in vst3, please get in touch.

If you have problems, ask for help.

If you get it working, and you like it, please tell me.


30 Responses to “Cubase Generic Remote and Behringer BCR 2000”

  1. [...] Cubase Generic Remote and the BCR Do you want the Cubase Generic Remote for remote control to be better? Do you have a Behringer BCR? Check out the new page [...]

  2. Nice work !
    I was wondering if this solution also would work for my Mackie Control C4 which is not supported by Cubase

  3. Mbekie:
    it could work for the C4, but will not take advantage of all of the C4′s potential (nor does it take full advantage of the BCR’s cel knobs)…
    Scribble strips and v-pot led’s will not receive host feedback, and so will not show anything.

    However, the knobs should be able to send the same midi output, thus controlling everything in Cubase.

    You can test for yourself:
    set the first 24 knobs to send midi cc’s 98-121, and the last 8 knobs to send cc’s 65-72 – eash of these should be sending out relative midi data, a value of 1 when turned clockwise, and 65 when turned anti-clockwise (I do not know if C4 sends out like this, I think it might). If you can set your C4 to act like this then you should be able to use this. Please get in touch if you’re having problems.

    If I had a C4 I could potentially create something which would allow it to work properly in Cubase, I can think of a possible method, but I don’t have one, bit too expensive for me.

  4. Matthew,
    This looks awesome!
    Great work!
    I can’t wait to try it.
    I think I understand what is happening, however, is there a mapping of what will control what?

    You say that the compressor is mapped they way you want it, but what is that on the bcr? I can’t find documentation of that.
    Now – do we download this in one package or do we download several different things? I am unclear on the directions.
    The bcr preset is the second link above? Not the one in the archive?
    Also the link to the vst 2.4 SDK is “page not found”

    Also – Love the videos on the Live page.
    How did you make them? What software?
    How did you zoom in on Live?
    The picture in picture with the padcontrol syncronized?
    They look great.

  5. Kip,
    videos were made with Camtasia studio, which screen captures and allows zooming. Older versions can be found legitimately for free, or could be in the past. Google is your friend. The picture in picture is video’d on my digital camera, which also records sound very badly – I then sync the audio I recorded with the screen capture, and then use the video’s audio as a visible/audible marker to sync with my own audio (and the capture), then mute it.

    Although the patch was working without hitches when I wrote the post, it seems to have developed an issue with nrprn data being sent from my BCR – not sure why, but it should be an easy fix. I will sort this out this afternoon, and repost it with a proper answer to your questions later in the day.

  6. I have been using Camtasia – I did not know you could zoom with it tho… but how did you get the pic in pic?
    I guess I better read more on Camtasia.

    I have been using Wink lately… I like it because it renders to flash, makes pages for them too. Easy edits too, can add call out boxes for directions. I think it will do voice over as well but I have not figured that out yet.
    I have not checked to see if it will zoom areas yet …I’ll have to look.

    Cheers

  7. I think Camtasia call it something like zoom-n-pan; PiP might have been added in v.5… will depend which version you have.
    I have a version of Premiere downstairs, on and old, broken down computer, which I can sort these things out in when Camtasia doesn’t do it for me… it’s pretty shallow, but screen captures well and has just enough features to be able to make quick videos like that. If I was going to use premiere I’d probably plan the video’s out properly and record them in segments.
    Anyway, now to find out why my BCR has suddenly started sending out NRPN cc 38, I could swear it didn’t used to to that.

  8. Ok, I lied, I have CamStudio – ah well, sorry I did not mean to hijack this for that.

    I reinstalled cubase SX 3 to try this, I had gone to Ableton Live.
    But I want to try our your creation. I will wait…
    Post it back on the bcr group when fixed, please.

  9. no problem chatting about video … just thought I’d give it a go after I wrote the pK thing for Ableton … to be honest I was hoping other Max users might have a look at it and then tell me all the places I’d gone wrong, so I would learn something. Turns out what I learnt was how to make bad videos, and that vimeo beats youtube.

    I too swapped to Ableton some time ago, and love it. But I find it actually quite annoying as a host for finishing things in. I love how clever it is, how fun session view is, but somehow me and Arrange don’t get on. So I use it for playing, learning things, and djing. Swapped back to Cubase (plus both audio and midi editing is a lot better).

    Anyway, it seems the problem I had spoken of is a ghost in the machine, and gone. If it recurs, which it might, then I will hunt it down and fix it. This would be easier if my demo of Max hadn’t run out.

    I can’t imagine this will really be a deciding factor in you re-using Cubase… unless the only reason you left it is because the midi remote control was so annoying (well, that was one of the reasons I swapped to Live).

    on the sdk being removed, Mackie’s Traktion just had vstxml added in version 3 as an exciting new feature, I’d be a bit surprised if Steinberg screwed them over as well by taking it away.

  10. Looks wonderful…but
    My Plugins goes mad, don’t know why. I do every step you say, but the plugins change the parameter like a crazy.
    “…I also use some of the features of Cubase’s Generic Remote. You will need to add a Generic Remote, and import the xml included in the downloaded .rar”
    Where is it?. Can’t find anywhere :(

  11. Where’s the cubase xlm? I couldn’t find it in the download package.

  12. sorry to both of you, forgetting to put that in was a bit stupid.
    I have updated the .rar; or you can get the xml from here:
    http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Q01Fb24vYWJwTVd4dnc9PQ

    juanca – it seems odd that you should have parameters jumping about. I guess it means something is communicating at least.
    - Did you upload the BCR preset to the BCR?
    - Can you try disabling any other Remote Control devices you have in Cubase to make sure nothing is conflicting?
    - If you have some kind of midi monitor (you might be able to record the midi straight into Cubase and see), can you see if your BCR is sending out cc38 – this is a problem I had which seemed just to disappear, so I could not recreate or locate it.

    Rob – would like to know if you have any luck with this?

  13. Thanks mate, now it’s working like a charm :). I guess, how much CPU cycles take keep open the MAX/MSP? and:
    How to create my own VSTXML files?.
    Thanks a lot

  14. good. Where were did you have problems – I would like to know to help other people who get stuck.

    Max/msp uses very little cpu … depends I guess on your computer – on my dual core 2.2 ghz laptop – no problem; if you’re running a five year old computer, it will use a little more. The patch is pretty simple, so it requires very little cpu.

    the vstparam tool you need to make your own vstxml’s was part of the vst 2.4 sdk. Steinberg seem to have removed this from their website, possibly trying to make new developers se vst3. I am trying to find another source – I will see what I can do.

  15. i guess that the solution was disabling my BCF2000 in bhui mode. Maybe the xml file in the GR help too. My computer is 5 years old! lol, but still do the things what i like.
    I try to swith it to an VSTi, and my computer crash. Well, i thing that the MAX/DSP is too much heavy for my old PC.
    Stick with the traditional mode for now.

  16. hey.could u upload the rar with the xml-file again.pleeeease.mario

  17. mario – it’s all in the .rar on the mediafire link up above.

    I’d been toying around with this, remaking it so that I could use it in SX3 , Cubase 4, Ableton and Reaper. Got it working but not really public-ready in CUbase and Ableton, might spend a little more time on it.

  18. Hello stutter excelent job I downoladed today will try it tonight . Any chances about sdk 2.4. ???

  19. Hello stutter … I have some problem everything is setup but nothing happens .There’s an error on Max I’m telling you:
    _error midi mme error 7 opening midi input device bcr2000

    Does this mean something to you ? I tried to restart many times no way it seems bcr its not there despite cubase shows it on dropdowns

    Thanks for your help !!!

    Denis

    • sorry Denis, I don’t know what could cause that. It seems as if your BCR is not being released by Cubase, an is not being seen by Max, but the BCR midi drivers are multiclient so this should not be happening. Do you have the BCR connected by USB or by midi -> perhaps if by midi then your midi port is not sareable between two programs.

  20. if you want to have vstsdk2.3, 2.4 and 3.01 just go to http://www.steinberg.de and get an developer account and you are permitted to download those and more.
    greets
    Martin

    • thanks Martin. At the time of writing, the vst 2.4 sdk was not available – I think a webpage had been moved and a link broken or something… good to know they back up there.

      • do you still use the BCR with Cubase?
        i reassembled my BCR and tried to work with it on CS4 and it has some kind of lag when i use functions like open plugin window.
        it takes almost a second or two and sometimes it doesn’t recognize what i’m sending from the BCR.
        otherwise, every moves i do with the mouse are directly sent to the BCR.
        I use it on USB together with Midi OX, -Yoke on Generic Remote and a Mackie Tweak (to select and step through the channels).
        I also found a way to select the inserts 1-8 but i was long time searching for remapping the plugin params. With my kind of setting it worked best in Nuendo SX3 but with CS4 no way.
        looks like they changed the linkup of the GR.
        Today i will checkout your stuff – hope it works better

  21. yeah, I still use it.
    I have a Novation 61 SL, and a Nocturn – so they get used wuite a lot with Novation automap, for plugin control – the Nocturn is probably reached for first with fx, and the 61 is used with synths. But the BCR is still used with a lot of plugins, and especially with some go-to plugins – compressors and eq.

    I think I had the same problem as you with the lag on open plugin window – I remember that. I have a mouse with many buttons, so I have two set up for edit plugin, and open channel edit settings. That works instantly, and is faster considering I usually have my hand on the mouse to begin with.

    The editing of inserts 1-8 I remember from SX3. Problem is the generic remote is too static.
    My method works, but I’m not sure that what is here is necessarily the same as what I am using. I might update tomorrow if I get time.
    Remapping paramters will always take time.

  22. Hey I finally made it , its working ok the answear was VISTA , I setup xp32 now its ok . I change yor sysex it was mapped upside down for me , now I will spend some time maping my favorite vst , just writing you back to say thanks for this nice job !!!

  23. Hello stutter after long time I made it , I had to setup my compu with xp32 . Vista was causing all problems (drivers nok) . Its working ok ! A question : automap vstxml could be used ? Which changes should be made in order they could run on BCR ? They’re avaiable for free for so many plugins I decided to check they seem to be similar to what is needed , aren’t they?
    Another question is it stable with other midi devices ( bcf+mpd24 … )

    Thanks again for this amazing pack !!

    DG

  24. Hey stutter hope to hear from you soon . I tried to remapp your preset , I would like to go down from knob 1.1 instead frm bottom 3.1 , so I changed 1.1 for me is cc98 instead of 121 . But I tried to remapp / change positions of some vstxml and it seems it doenst respond to some changes. I have the vstparam tool works nice but when I try to remapp lines to put controls where I want is doenst go ok . Vstxml is simple to edit , just cut and paste command lines from one position to another ?? How do I know that the command is going to be mapped to a specific knob ? It seems you put some blank line when you need to have a knob without mapping isn’t it ??? I hope you could give me some hints how to reorder the vstxml x bcrpreset , I’m having a hard time trying to fix it . There’s good estability , sometimes the system crashes but not too frequently . – didn’t try bcr and bcf on mackie mode , its ok to run both with your max programs?? Many questions hope you could help me !! Thanks a lot for your patience

    Denis

  25. Hei man I’m trying to fix vintage warmer : no way I opened the vstxml on word , moved command lines on new position , save it on the vst folder close to vst , but it seems it does not respond to changes . – closed cubase and max and started over it all , nop . Any big mistake ? How can I left blank knobs ? Example I want knobs 1.4 to 1.8 to be blank , similar to VWarmer gui , how to program lines in the vstxml ??? Thks !!!!

  26. Hi , I found the error – I had saved the vstxml without an underline symbol between “psp” and “vintage” so the vstxml was named different from the dll . I renamed the file exactly like dll and now its ok . For blank knobs I set a command line as and it worked fine for some moment then – don’t know what happened I must made some mistake in vstparamtool suddently it does not work again it seems the original setup is beeing used despite the new one is placed on the same directory , maybe I should “refresh” the vstparam ???
    What should be done in order the corrected vstxml is understood on cubase ??

    Thanks any help

  27. I’m flying blind … Need help how to set up parameters with vstparamtool in order it works on BCR . I’m missing something
    I’m giving a break for the time being

    Thanks !!

    Denis

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